The powdered mix, stoichiometric, is
rolled in a thin paper type tubing
that it can flash through. A DaveyFire 29F is at midpoint inf the flash
mix tube. A DaveyFire 29B won't work, and your homemade ignitor might
not either (test !)
Here's one with the stoichiometric ratio as well as comments about
mesh, etc. from a
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I know I promised not to post until I got some potassium perchlorate...
However, I recently found a source for aluminum powder and have acheived
some interesting results. I can't keep my promise about the potassium
perchlorate. Then again, most of you think I'm an ass anyway, so what the
heck.
The paint grade Al powder is from "LUCO" and was found at a local craft shop
in a small quantity. There is also copper powder available, but I didn't
buy any - wondering if I should.
I made some stars with a variety of Al powder and BP mixes with pleasing
results. My favorite was when I did a mix with "IMR HI-SKOR 800X" smokeless
powder and Al. Very nice little comets with a large number of white
sparks - primed with 4f BP. About 50/50 by volume. Solvent - PVC cleaner.
Nice hard plastic stars shot from a small star gun.
Add a bit of Strontium Carbonate and it makes a fair slow burning pink in a
dry mix (haven't attempted making stars yet).
Here is the interesting thing - at least for me. If I add "Black Copper
Oxide" to the smokeless powder (small pellets), I get a mild, slow burning,
aqua - if I'm lucky. If I simply add Al powder to the smokeless powder
without "Black Copper Oxide" - it makes nice sparks. If I add Al powder to
Black Copper Oxide and no smokeless powder - it doesn't light. If I add a
bit of Al powder along with the "Black Copper Oxide" AND smokeless powder
the mix turns into a violent light green flash. I mean - fast stuff! Equal
to, or better than, any other flash. Good thing I'm anal-retentive or I
would have soiled my britches the first time I tested it. This stuff is
scary. I'm sure it will detonate if mixed properly - so I haven't even
attempted making stars with this mix - even though I like the color. Maybe
I'll try about 4 little stars.
I see so little interest in "smokeless powder" in this group. It burns
complete - no slag. Why do "Pyros" avoid it? It obviously has some uses.
I remember that I saw a warning about Black Copper Oxide and Al powder on a
website, but I can't find that website again. This is some serious flash
made from chemicals that can be purchased very easily. I'm not joking or
trolling. Try it yourself - by volume: 1 part smokeless powder, 1 part
aluminum powder, .25 part black copper oxide - dry mix. You will see it is
a powerfull flash mixture. It scares the hell out of me every time I light
it. I've gone as far as making a thin 7" line of dry powder and it still
seems to be instant flash - I can't even watch it travel the line. It just
all goes at once even though I only light one end.
"Piccolo Pete" <sorry@spamsucks.com> wrote
<snip> If I add a
> bit of Al powder along with the "Black Copper Oxide" AND smokeless powder
> the mix turns into a violent light green flash. I mean - fast stuff! Equal
> to, or better than, any other flash.
To qoute Mike Swisher from a 2002 post, "The thermitic reaction of
copper oxide mixed with a finely powdered aluminum is, however, fast
enough to make it a flash powder of sorts." I would observe all safety
precautions associated with handling flash powder. Wear appropriate
clothing, make only small batches, be especially conscious of static.
Use only paper containers, do not expose the mix to friction. I would
diaper this compostion.
> I see so little interest in "smokeless powder" in this group. It burns
> complete - no slag. Why do "Pyros" avoid it? It obviously has some uses.
Why do you say this? There are innumerable posts on the use of both
single and double based smokeless powders in pyro. A quick search of
google will show that a LOT of pyros make their nitrocellulose laquer
by dissolving smokless powder in acetone (and sometimes amyl acetate).
> I remember that I saw a warning about Black Copper Oxide and Al powder on a
> website, but I can't find that website again. This is some serious flash
> made from chemicals that can be purchased very easily.
Do your google research and you can find this info. The goldschmidt
compostion that you are working with is well documented.
> Try it yourself - by volume: 1 part smokeless powder, 1 part
> aluminum powder, .25 part black copper oxide - dry mix. You will see it is
> a powerfull flash mixture. It scares the hell out of me every time I light
> it.
Ummm, No thanks. If I want to make flash, I'll just make flash.
Jeff
Smokeless powder has some use in proximate (indoor) pyrotechnics. Alliant Green
Dot is a seeming favorite. Small percentages of barium or strontium chlorides
added to it will burn with good green or red colors.
Copper oxide and aluminum powder mixed together can produce an energetic
thermite-type reaction. It doesn't surprise me that you got the results you did
mixing these things with smokeless powder. That your mixture of CuO and Al
"didn't light" is probably the consequence of their not being in the proper
proportions.
3CuO + 2Al => 3Cu + Al2O3
If you do the calculations you will find that a stoichiometric ratio is
approximately 81.5 CuO, 18.5 Al, by weight. Try a 4:1 mixture of CuO and Al. It
will "light" and burn - surprisingly fast!
In article <bGKdb.6671$T65.5213@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, Piccolo Pete says...
>
>I know I promised not to post until I got some potassium perchlorate...
>However, I recently found a source for aluminum powder and have acheived
>some interesting results. I can't keep my promise about the potassium
>perchlorate. Then again, most of you think I'm an ass anyway, so what the
>heck.
>
>The paint grade Al powder is from "LUCO" and was found at a local craft shop
>in a small quantity. There is also copper powder available, but I didn't
>buy any - wondering if I should.
>
>I made some stars with a variety of Al powder and BP mixes with pleasing
>results. My favorite was when I did a mix with "IMR HI-SKOR 800X" smokeless
>powder and Al. Very nice little comets with a large number of white
>sparks - primed with 4f BP. About 50/50 by volume. Solvent - PVC cleaner.
>Nice hard plastic stars shot from a small star gun.
>
>Add a bit of Strontium Carbonate and it makes a fair slow burning pink in a
>dry mix (haven't attempted making stars yet).
>
>Here is the interesting thing - at least for me. If I add "Black Copper
>Oxide" to the smokeless powder (small pellets), I get a mild, slow burning,
>aqua - if I'm lucky. If I simply add Al powder to the smokeless powder
>without "Black Copper Oxide" - it makes nice sparks. If I add Al powder to
>Black Copper Oxide and no smokeless powder - it doesn't light. If I add a
>bit of Al powder along with the "Black Copper Oxide" AND smokeless powder
>the mix turns into a violent light green flash. I mean - fast stuff! Equal
>to, or better than, any other flash. Good thing I'm anal-retentive or I
>would have soiled my britches the first time I tested it. This stuff is
>scary. I'm sure it will detonate if mixed properly - so I haven't even
>attempted making stars with this mix - even though I like the color. Maybe
>I'll try about 4 little stars.
>
>I see so little interest in "smokeless powder" in this group. It burns
>complete - no slag. Why do "Pyros" avoid it? It obviously has some uses.
>
>I remember that I saw a warning about Black Copper Oxide and Al powder on a
>website, but I can't find that website again. This is some serious flash
>made from chemicals that can be purchased very easily. I'm not joking or
>trolling. Try it yourself - by volume: 1 part smokeless powder, 1 part
>aluminum powder, .25 part black copper oxide - dry mix. You will see it is
>a powerfull flash mixture. It scares the hell out of me every time I light
>it. I've gone as far as making a thin 7" line of dry powder and it still
>seems to be instant flash - I can't even watch it travel the line. It just
>all goes at once even though I only light one end.
>
>
Yeah CuO/Al thermite is very agressive, especially if you are using fine
dark flake Aluminium.
Have you tried a blow torch on the CuO/Al thermite composition?
It should light easily enough with that kind of heat, your mix is probably
way off, calculate and use the stoichiometric mix. I think your smokeless
is only acting as a prime. Get yourself a good scale if you don't already
have one, they go for next to nothing on eBay now days.
You could try using your smokeless as a prime for the CuO/Al thermite. Try
a small pile at one end of your rate testing line. Alternatively, the
traditional ghetto fuse (sparkler) should ignite it easily.
Another thing you can try is using CaSO4 as an oxidiser and binder. Kewl's
cast thermites using this, which works fairly well, but can cause steam
explosions from the bound water, plaster cures rather than dries. Try it
dry first, then with caution as a cast cord.
Piccolo Pete wrote:
> I know I promised not to post until I got some potassium perchlorate...
> However, I recently found a source for aluminum powder and have acheived
> some interesting results. I can't keep my promise about the potassium
> perchlorate. Then again, most of you think I'm an ass anyway, so what the
> heck.
>
> The paint grade Al powder is from "LUCO" and was found at a local craft shop
> in a small quantity. There is also copper powder available, but I didn't
> buy any - wondering if I should.
>
> I made some stars with a variety of Al powder and BP mixes with pleasing
> results. My favorite was when I did a mix with "IMR HI-SKOR 800X" smokeless
> powder and Al. Very nice little comets with a large number of white
> sparks - primed with 4f BP. About 50/50 by volume. Solvent - PVC cleaner.
> Nice hard plastic stars shot from a small star gun.
>
> Add a bit of Strontium Carbonate and it makes a fair slow burning pink in a
> dry mix (haven't attempted making stars yet).
>
> Here is the interesting thing - at least for me. If I add "Black Copper
> Oxide" to the smokeless powder (small pellets), I get a mild, slow burning,
> aqua - if I'm lucky. If I simply add Al powder to the smokeless powder
> without "Black Copper Oxide" - it makes nice sparks. If I add Al powder to
> Black Copper Oxide and no smokeless powder - it doesn't light. If I add a
> bit of Al powder along with the "Black Copper Oxide" AND smokeless powder
> the mix turns into a violent light green flash. I mean - fast stuff! Equal
> to, or better than, any other flash. Good thing I'm anal-retentive or I
Read the rest of this message... (27 more lines)
©2004 Google
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A mix copper oxide (cupric) and aluminum is becoming popular among the
serious high power rocket folks. I don't recall the ratio but it seems
to have at least some catalytic effect on AP mixtures, such as they
most often use. This probably comes from a blast of super-hot copper
metal vapor. Even very large "P" class motors turn on INSTANTLY when
this mix fires. Such a large motor would use about 50 grams, IIRC.
The choice of aluminum powder or powders would be very important.
Dark pyro or "black" types would make for a rather explosive mixture.
In fact, Pains Wessex, in the UK, used to make a 37/38mm training
simulator cartridge called "brown smoke puff" that was based on this
mix. These exploded in mid-air with a loud report.
I would try a mix of mostly fine atomized and a lesser amount of dark
pyro. This should not be too hard to light and not be so explosive. I
do wonder how a mix using only dark pyro would work as a prime on AP
stars..... An FAQ for using copper thermite for APCP motor ignition is
being put together as I write. When it is finished, I'll post a link.
Post a follow-up to this message
"tinkan" <lightnpyro@yahoo.com
> A mix copper oxide (cupric) and aluminum is becoming popular among the
> serious high power rocket folks. I don't recall the ratio but it seems
> to have at least some catalytic effect on AP mixtures, such as they
> most often use. This probably comes from a blast of super-hot copper
> metal vapor. Even very large "P" class motors turn on INSTANTLY when
> this mix fires. Such a large motor would use about 50 grams, IIRC.
> The choice of aluminum powder or powders would be very important.
> Dark pyro or "black" types would make for a rather explosive mixture.
> In fact, Pains Wessex, in the UK, used to make a 37/38mm training
> simulator cartridge called "brown smoke puff" that was based on this
> mix. These exploded in mid-air with a loud report.
> I would try a mix of mostly fine atomized and a lesser amount of dark
> pyro. This should not be too hard to light and not be so explosive. I
> do wonder how a mix using only dark pyro would work as a prime on AP
> stars..... An FAQ for using copper thermite for APCP motor ignition is
> being put together as I write. When it is finished, I'll post a link.
------------
Here do be some copper oxide comps. Me thinks they will burn slower than bginary
copper oxide/aluminium thermite!
As usual - I guarantee nothing - especially I do NOT warrantee they are safe to use!
Starter
Ellern #171 MC pg355
Silicon 33.3%
Lead/dioxide 33.3
Cuprous/oxide 33.3
Starter
Ellern #172 MC pg365
Silicon 50%
Lead/dioxide 20
Cupric/oxide 30
Igniter 6-6-6
OP2793
Lead/peroxide 6 pts
Cupric/oxide 6
Silicon 6
cf Ellern #171
Igniter 6-6-8
OP2793
Lead/peroxide 6pts
Cupric/oxide 6
Silicon 8
cf Ellern #171
Starter
Chemical formulary 1/171
Calcium/silicide 10 pts
Lead/dioxide 15
Silica fused 30
Cupric/oxide 30
INCENDIARY [Fast burning gasless]
PATR-2700 F7
CUPRIC/OXIDE 80%
ALUMINUM 20
First fire
Hans-Werner Weber AFN 158
Potassium/perchlorate 73%
Red/gum 12
Charcoal powder 5
Cupric/oxide 1
Ferrosoferric/oxide 1
Aluminum 4
Dextrin 4
--
donald j haarmann
---------------------------
"It is essential that persons having explosive
substances under their charge should never
lose sight of the conviction that, preventive
measures should always be prescribed
on the hypothesis of an explosion."
Post a follow-up to this message
"tinkan" <lightnpyro@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ea3ad31.0410101059.7818d69e@posting.google.com...
> A mix copper oxide (cupric) and aluminum is becoming popular among the
> serious high power rocket folks. I don't recall the ratio but it seems
> to have at least some catalytic effect on AP mixtures, such as they
> most often use. This probably comes from a blast of super-hot copper
> metal vapor. Even very large "P" class motors turn on INSTANTLY when
> this mix fires.
This does make perfect sense when you think about it. Hot particles seem to
to a far better job at igniting propellants than hot gasses, this is
especially evident with the KNO3/sucrose fuels since it's a thermoset fuel.
If you try to ignite it with a lighter, the suger will first melt and char
before it eventually ignites, but with a coat of NC-lacquer and a bit of BP
it catches fire immediatly.
Since these copper based comp are virtually gassless it should also be
possible to use far more without running the risk of overpressure, compared
to BP-like comps.
--
Erlend Meyer
Det er bare en hastighet
> An FAQ for using copper thermite for APCP motor ignition is
> being put together as I write. When it is finished, I'll post a link.
Great!
